Hello all, I am looking for ideas for a diet for my 2 year old great dane recently diagnosed with CIL. The vet has her eating Hills Science Diet I/D and she is not fond of it. The steroids make her hungry enough to eat it but as soon as we lower the dose she no longer wants to eat. I see a lot of people are feeding their dogs Royal Canin gastro intestinal, I am going to talk to my vet about that and see if we can try it. In the mean time I would greatly appreciate all input. (dry food, canned food, home cooked food!)
(01-29-2016, 08:50 PM)JenK. Wrote: Hello all, I am looking for ideas for a diet for my 2 year old great dane recently diagnosed with CIL. The vet has her eating Hills Science Diet I/D and she is not fond of it. The steroids make her hungry enough to eat it but as soon as we lower the dose she no longer wants to eat. I see a lot of people are feeding their dogs Royal Canin gastro intestinal, I am going to talk to my vet about that and see if we can try it. In the mean time I would greatly appreciate all input. (dry food, canned food, home cooked food!)
Hi JenK.
So sorry to hear about your dog's diagnosis with CIL. I'm not sure how acute the disease is for your great dane, but for my dog, it is acute. I had to put her on a homemade diet because even the low-fat food from the vet (Royal Canin) was too high. And she wasn't enjoying it anyway. I've got her on white rice and white fish (tilapia if it's on sale, otherwise pollock), and tuna (canned in water). These fish are high in protein, extremely low in fat, and all ingredients are low fiber (which is also important for CIL dogs). I'm adding a supplement called Hilary's Blend (there is a 0% fat version) which comes with a book of diets, but even Hilary's low-fat diets were too high in fat for Annie. So I just stuck with the rice and fish. Thankfully she LOVES fish. When I'm cooking it she sits in the kitchen with those sad puppy dog eyes and tries desperately to will me into feeding her between meals. I boil the fish, to try to melt out even more fat, and I overcook the rice - this makes all ingredients soft and highly digestible. This is a lot of work, and it's expensive. But it's the only solution for Annie. And I'm not sure I'll ever be able to put her back on commercially made food like the RC GI low fat. But she's worth it.
Best of luck with your great dane. You're in the right place to learn about how to manage this disease!
(01-29-2016, 08:50 PM)JenK. Wrote: Hello all, I am looking for ideas for a diet for my 2 year old great dane recently diagnosed with CIL. The vet has her eating Hills Science Diet I/D and she is not fond of it. The steroids make her hungry enough to eat it but as soon as we lower the dose she no longer wants to eat. I see a lot of people are feeding their dogs Royal Canin gastro intestinal, I am going to talk to my vet about that and see if we can try it. In the mean time I would greatly appreciate all input. (dry food, canned food, home cooked food!)
Hi JenK.
So sorry to hear about your dog's diagnosis with CIL. I'm not sure how acute the disease is for your great dane, but for my dog, it is acute. I had to put her on a homemade diet because even the low-fat food from the vet (Royal Canin) was too high. And she wasn't enjoying it anyway. I've got her on white rice and white fish (tilapia if it's on sale, otherwise pollock), and tuna (canned in water). These fish are high in protein, extremely low in fat, and all ingredients are low fiber (which is also important for CIL dogs). I'm adding a supplement called Hilary's Blend (there is a 0% fat version) which comes with a book of diets, but even Hilary's low-fat diets were too high in fat for Annie. So I just stuck with the rice and fish. Thankfully she LOVES fish. When I'm cooking it she sits in the kitchen with those sad puppy dog eyes and tries desperately to will me into feeding her between meals. I boil the fish, to try to melt out even more fat, and I overcook the rice - this makes all ingredients soft and highly digestible. This is a lot of work, and it's expensive. But it's the only solution for Annie. And I'm not sure I'll ever be able to put her back on commercially made food like the RC GI low fat. But she's worth it.
Best of luck with your great dane. You're in the right place to learn about how to manage this disease!
Thank you very much for the information. What kind of dog is Annie, what does she weigh, and how much do you feed her? Is she on steroids or B12 shots or anything else or does this diet and supplement keep it under control? Sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to figure all this out. I feel terrible when I know she doesn't feel good and nothing seems to be helping.
(01-29-2016, 08:50 PM)JenK. Wrote: Hello all, I am looking for ideas for a diet for my 2 year old great dane recently diagnosed with CIL. The vet has her eating Hills Science Diet I/D and she is not fond of it. The steroids make her hungry enough to eat it but as soon as we lower the dose she no longer wants to eat. I see a lot of people are feeding their dogs Royal Canin gastro intestinal, I am going to talk to my vet about that and see if we can try it. In the mean time I would greatly appreciate all input. (dry food, canned food, home cooked food!)
Hi Jen, definitely try the Royal Canin Low Fat Canned not dry food. I've had great results with it and I know others have as well. I had to put Ernie on Flagyl initially but now he's off and he's doing great. He was on Hill's WD previously and although the rock hard stool is great, I think there's too much fiber in WD for CIL. I also think the hard stool can be misleading and is just because of the fiber and not because your dog is doing well. Best of luck, Geraldine
(01-29-2016, 08:50 PM)JenK. Wrote: Hello all, I am looking for ideas for a diet for my 2 year old great dane recently diagnosed with CIL. The vet has her eating Hills Science Diet I/D and she is not fond of it. The steroids make her hungry enough to eat it but as soon as we lower the dose she no longer wants to eat. I see a lot of people are feeding their dogs Royal Canin gastro intestinal, I am going to talk to my vet about that and see if we can try it. In the mean time I would greatly appreciate all input. (dry food, canned food, home cooked food!)
Hi JenK.
So sorry to hear about your dog's diagnosis with CIL. I'm not sure how acute the disease is for your great dane, but for my dog, it is acute. I had to put her on a homemade diet because even the low-fat food from the vet (Royal Canin) was too high. And she wasn't enjoying it anyway. I've got her on white rice and white fish (tilapia if it's on sale, otherwise pollock), and tuna (canned in water). These fish are high in protein, extremely low in fat, and all ingredients are low fiber (which is also important for CIL dogs). I'm adding a supplement called Hilary's Blend (there is a 0% fat version) which comes with a book of diets, but even Hilary's low-fat diets were too high in fat for Annie. So I just stuck with the rice and fish. Thankfully she LOVES fish. When I'm cooking it she sits in the kitchen with those sad puppy dog eyes and tries desperately to will me into feeding her between meals. I boil the fish, to try to melt out even more fat, and I overcook the rice - this makes all ingredients soft and highly digestible. This is a lot of work, and it's expensive. But it's the only solution for Annie. And I'm not sure I'll ever be able to put her back on commercially made food like the RC GI low fat. But she's worth it.
Best of luck with your great dane. You're in the right place to learn about how to manage this disease!
Thank you very much for the information. What kind of dog is Annie, what does she weigh, and how much do you feed her? Is she on steroids or B12 shots or anything else or does this diet and supplement keep it under control? Sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to figure all this out. I feel terrible when I know she doesn't feel good and nothing seems to be helping.
Dear JenK.
Don't feel bad for asking questions, it's something you need to do to figure this disease out. It's so different for different dogs, so absorb any information you can get your hands on and see how it applies to your dog and your dog's condition. All of my info below works for Annie, but each CIL dog seems to have different symptoms, different reaction to medications, different reaction to food. So you need to try to determine how to make it work for your dog.
I have a metaphor that this disease is like playing a chess game against a formidable opponent (the disease). Each piece on your chess board represents an aspect of the diet, the medication, the supplements, probiotics, etc. And every day I study the pieces on my chess board to see if I should move any, and determine which one I can move without exposing "my queen". I have learned that making one "move" at a time is best. Then monitor how the disease reacts (or how the dog's body reacts) and then studying the chess board again to see if I need/can do anything else. It takes up a lot of my emotional energy and a lot of time. But it has been necessary to get to this point. Annie got sick Dec. 12/15 and we are just now seeing signs of improvement. Annie is by no means under control yet. We are only just seeing signs of recovery as of this week when we introduced the Atopica. I wouldn't even say she's in remission yet - I'm not even sure what remission looks like (maybe it's when the Albumin is within normal range for a period of time, I don't know).
Her most recent Albumin level is 15 (should be between 25-36).
Her most recent B12 test is 294 (normal is between 150-700). So we aren't doing any B12 supplements yet. If the next Albumin test (feb 8) is still below normal we may introduce a B12 supplement by pill.
Annie is 2 years old. She is a mix of staffordshire terrier, beagle and english springer spaniel.
Currently she weighs 28 lbs, but in the beginning of December she was 35. That's how quickly this disease can affect the body condition as it steals protein from the muscles to replenish the lost Albumin.
Annie is on the following medications:
25 mg Prednisone every 12 hours
250 mg Metronidazole every 12 hours
75 mg Atopica every 24 hours (I give her 20 mg Pepcid AC 30 minutes before the Atopica because it's brutal on the tummy)
Note, the amount of steroid for her is high because she is a young dog with a VERY robust immune system. An older dog of the same weight would not need this amount. We will be re-testing her Albumin on Feb. 8th and we will adjust the medication accordingly (likely keep Atopica as it is for a couple more weeks, but lower the Prednisone, maybe).
I'm feeding her the following recipe three times a day (I try to spread it out to six hours between meals).
This is one meal:
100 g White Rice (1.5 calories per gram)
100g White fish (tilapia or pollock) (1.3 calories per gram)
75g Tuna (1 calorie per gram)
1/2 scoop of Hilary's blend (supplement)
Total 275 g per meal
Total 348 calories per meal
Total daily 825 g
Total daily 1044 calories
According to all of the reading I've done this is enough calories for a dog that weighs 50 lbs. So some would say this is way more calories per day than Annie should be getting, but because her body is literally eating itself (stealing protein from her muscles to try to replenish the Albumin that is being lost) this seems to be a good amount. Sometimes I feel I should be giving her more, but I don't want to overwhelm her damaged intestine. I played with the volume and I made several adjustments before getting to this recipe.
So this is what works for Annie. It may be different for your dog (obviously your great dane is a lot bigger so you'd have to consider the calorie requirements of your dog). I would recommend that you also speak to a canine nutritionist - one who is experienced with CIL - because not all nutritionists understand the special requirements of a CIL dog. For instance, the nutritionist at my vet thought I was crazy to feed Annie as many calories per day. But she doesn't have any experience with CIL. So you need to be careful who you speak to.
Anyway, that's likely an overload of info for now. But I hope you can take something helpful out of this.
(01-29-2016, 08:50 PM)JenK. Wrote: Hello all, I am looking for ideas for a diet for my 2 year old great dane recently diagnosed with CIL. The vet has her eating Hills Science Diet I/D and she is not fond of it. The steroids make her hungry enough to eat it but as soon as we lower the dose she no longer wants to eat. I see a lot of people are feeding their dogs Royal Canin gastro intestinal, I am going to talk to my vet about that and see if we can try it. In the mean time I would greatly appreciate all input. (dry food, canned food, home cooked food!)
Hi JenK.
So sorry to hear about your dog's diagnosis with CIL. I'm not sure how acute the disease is for your great dane, but for my dog, it is acute. I had to put her on a homemade diet because even the low-fat food from the vet (Royal Canin) was too high. And she wasn't enjoying it anyway. I've got her on white rice and white fish (tilapia if it's on sale, otherwise pollock), and tuna (canned in water). These fish are high in protein, extremely low in fat, and all ingredients are low fiber (which is also important for CIL dogs). I'm adding a supplement called Hilary's Blend (there is a 0% fat version) which comes with a book of diets, but even Hilary's low-fat diets were too high in fat for Annie. So I just stuck with the rice and fish. Thankfully she LOVES fish. When I'm cooking it she sits in the kitchen with those sad puppy dog eyes and tries desperately to will me into feeding her between meals. I boil the fish, to try to melt out even more fat, and I overcook the rice - this makes all ingredients soft and highly digestible. This is a lot of work, and it's expensive. But it's the only solution for Annie. And I'm not sure I'll ever be able to put her back on commercially made food like the RC GI low fat. But she's worth it.
Best of luck with your great dane. You're in the right place to learn about how to manage this disease!
Thank you very much for the information. What kind of dog is Annie, what does she weigh, and how much do you feed her? Is she on steroids or B12 shots or anything else or does this diet and supplement keep it under control? Sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to figure all this out. I feel terrible when I know she doesn't feel good and nothing seems to be helping.
Dear Annies Mom:
I am wondering if you could talk about Hilary's Blend, what is in it, etc? Especially the Zero fat version. We had Diva on Dr. Harvey's dehydrated veggies, but I called the company and found out it had 1 percent fat so we are looking for a replacement.
Thank you all for your help and words of encouragement. We lost our sweet Dolly sunday night. The steroids lowered her immune system and she got an infection that she could not fight off. She was only 2 years old. What an awful disease.
(02-02-2016, 08:10 AM)JenK. Wrote: Thank you all for your help and words of encouragement. We lost our sweet Dolly sunday night. The steroids lowered her immune system and she got an infection that she could not fight off. She was only 2 years old. What an awful disease.
Dear Jen:
I am so sorry to hear about Dolly. Sending prayers to you and your family.
(02-02-2016, 08:10 AM)JenK. Wrote: Thank you all for your help and words of encouragement. We lost our sweet Dolly sunday night. The steroids lowered her immune system and she got an infection that she could not fight off. She was only 2 years old. What an awful disease.
Oh JenK. I'm so so sorry to hear about Dolly. My thoughts are with you. They are so precious to us and it's such a horrible disease. And to be taken so young. My heart really goes out to you.
(02-02-2016, 08:10 AM)JenK. Wrote: Thank you all for your help and words of encouragement. We lost our sweet Dolly sunday night. The steroids lowered her immune system and she got an infection that she could not fight off. She was only 2 years old. What an awful disease.
I'm so sorry for your loss. This truly is a horrible disease. ((((hugs)))
